Jersey Ram Fan: Hey Jim,
Okay, I'm sure the Avery pick is going to be beat to death. I don't have a problem with the pick, but being that he wasn't so high on everyone else's board, why not trade down? Was it true that 49ers were hot on Avery? Was it probable that the 49ers would have grabbed him at 39? Was this a case of the Rams falling in love with Avery because they were not expecting Sweed and Thomas to be there at 33? Please shed some light on this, other than the Rams blew an opportunity to grab an extra pick by trading down.
Jim Thomas: Here we go--Unlike Chris Long and Glenn Dorsey, Avery actually was the highest-rated WR on the Rams board. The Rams had some off-field concerns on Devin Thomas and there were injury concerns on Limas Sweeds' wrist. I've heard it's a really bad injury.
According to Rams officials, in their networking with other teams, at least 8 to 10 other teams had Avery rated as their top wide reciever. It was a flawed class, to say the least.
I'm wondering if it was the right pick, as well. We'll find out in about 3 months.
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dev: jim, i really like the fullback from kansas..i seen him play on tv 1100 yards and 16 td that is impressive and over 200 yards receiving was there any other fullbacks with those kind of numbers and what are his chances he makes our team? more info on him .... thanks
Jim Thomas: I don't know much else about the guy. I saw him play on TV a couple times like many of the fans on this chat. I can't imagine a FB in the draft pool with his kinds of numbers. But he will have to block to earn his keep with the Rams.
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steve: hey jim, you know i've got to ask this question once more... have you had a chance to ask howie long about the possibility of his..ehrr..about his son becoming a st. louis ram? also, what grade do you give the rams draft? it seems to me that if you draft logically, for need rather than reaching, the grade goes down. but, if you take the known players from bcs schools, your grade goes up. i sincerely hope the rams and us fans do not regret not picking dorsey. being from kansas, i would have loved to see jordy nelson in a rams uniform. any idea where he stood on the rams draft board as far as receivers?
Jim Thomas: Have not talked to Howie Long about Chris. I was not in New York for the draft, and Howie did not accompany his son to St. Louis for Sunday's press conference. I'd give the Rams a B- or C+ for the draft. I thought the Rams had a good second day, and I give them credit for sticking with productive players and staying away from character risks. But I have a hard time seeing how the Rams passed on the best defensive player in the draft (on their own board) in Dorsey, and like many of you, I'm wondering if they picked the right WR.
Don't know how the Rams felt about Jordy Nelson.
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ramman03: With the way the Draft shaked out, are the Lito Shepard rumors still out there and possible June 1st cap casualty that we might be able to pick up?
Jim Thomas: They were more than rumors. As I reported in Saturday's paper, the Rams did talk to the Eagles about Sheppard but there were no formal offers made by the Rams despite rumors out of Philly that the Rams had offered a second-rounder. They did not. And team officials were emphatic that that was too high an asking price. Unless Philly's asking price goes down, I don't think the Rams are interested. Keep in mind, too, that Sheppard apparently wants a new contract as well. But believe me, the Rams are still antsy about Fakhir Brown's long-term availability even though he won his appeal this time.
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Curt, CA: Dear Jim,
Thanks for the chats. I found it very telling that the players I suspected that were going to be drafted in fact were, not because of my own intuition, but because of what I was reading in your columns. I had Chris Long in the first; DeSean Jackson second (although Avery was the next choice), John Greco in the third, a CB or LB in the fourth, possibly another WR, LB's late. The only thing you were missing was the later round QB.
I keep telling people on the Rams forums to pay attention to what the P-D is writing, and to read between the lines. You showed your relationships at Rams Park are true and your insight is pretty darn accurate. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to reading more as camp then pre-season come around (I want to know ahead of time who's being cut!!). Go Rams!
Jim Thomas: Thanks so much for the kind words. Here's the deal: I may not always be right. I may not always be first. But I spend a lot of time on this beat. And I talk to a lot of people _ more than anyone else. When in doubt, you should always go to your local beat writer for news (whether it's Blues hockey or Cardinals baseball, etc.)
I don't like to speculate. And most of the non-attributed stuff I write is based on people I have talked to inside and outside of the building.
Here's kind of how the first-round pick went down, to the best of my knowledge, regardless of what you may have heard (even from Rams personnel at press conferences and on the radio):
The Rams were targeting Jake Long, the OT from Michigan; once he signed with Miami last Tuesday, it became a Dorsey vs. C. Long thing (Gholston was never in the mix _ except under a trade down scenario). Dorsey was the clear No. 1 on their board early in the week; some top-ranking veteran personnel people wanted Dorsey; as well as most of the scouts; defensive coordinator Jim Haslett wanted Dorsey. My early reports during draft week, although they were played mostly down the middle, gave the edge to Dorsey because of this. But something happened on Thursday night (Thursday just happened to be the first day John Shaw came into town, by the way.) Shaw and team officials adamantly deny that he had anything to do with this, but the board was "mysteriously" tweaked and the gap between Dorsey and Chris Long shrunk considerably. The Rams were very interested in trading out of the pick. As much as they liked Chris Long _ and they do _ they felt that was a lot of money to pay him at No. 2.
In the end, nothing materialized on a trade, and the Rams went for the pass rusher (Long) instead of the defensive tackle.
As for DeSean Jackson, my source on the Rams interest was "outside" the building as I mentioned on a couple of occasions on the "Roll Home" with Bernie and Randy. But after the draft, I was told the team did hold Jackson in high regard (despite some who feel he has a "turd" personality). And Jackson would have been in play had the Rams gotten an extra second-round pick in any trade-down scenario (from the first round). But because of his size, Jackson would have been stricly a slot receiver in the NFL (and a punt returner). The Rams feel Avery can play more than the slot.
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Tj: Chris Chamberlain at #7. Maybe a bigger cheaper version of Adam Archuletta? Is he projected as a LB or SS?
Jim Thomas: Chamberlain was worked out _ I believe at the Senior Bowl _ at safety. The Rams see him as a weak-side linebacker. (But mainly as someone who might be able to help on special teams.)
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Ron: Jim - Since both of the receivers the Rams drafted are "plus" returners, do you think Dante Hall will have to compete for kick/punt returns even if he's healthy? Or will he be around to compete after June 1?
Thank you.
Jim Thomas: Dante Hall is in the last year of his contract, and since he was acquired in a trade, there are no salary cap implications if he's cut before or after June 1. Either way (before or after June 1) the Rams save just under $2 million if he's released. So that definitely is something to keep an eye on if any of these youngsters really shine in the preseason.
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Jay Effnou: Supposedly the Jets tried to move from 6 to 2 to get Chris Long. What was the best offer the Rams received? If it is true that the Rams tried to pry a #2 from Atlanta to move up one spot and assure themselves of Matt Ryan, why didn't the Rams loosen those demands before making the pick, so they could have paid Chris Long less? Finally, couldn't the Rams have slid back a few spots in the second and still come away with Avery? Thank you -- I really enjoy your work.
Jim Thomas: To the best of my knowledge, the Rams received only "nibbles" from the Jets about moving up to No. 2. I was told that the most serious trade talks at No. 2 came from Baltimore trying to move down from No. 8 (apparently to get Ryan). But I was told the Ravens were offering only draft picks _ and not enough to excite the Rams.
If you believe what the Rams told me, and that 8 or 10 other clubs apparently had Avery as their top-rated WR, I don't think a trade-down would've worked. I think it was something like nine of 18 picks were WRs in the second round beginning with the Rams selection of Avery.
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Joesph Phan: Jim,
I read your Chris Long story, and you didn't report any of his contract information. That's important, how could you leave that out?
Joesph Phan
Jim Thomas: It's very important. But he doesn't have a contract. The Dolphins' signing of Jake Long at No. 1 before the draft is very rare. Most first-round picks aren't signed until mid to late July.
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John: Jim,
As always, thanks for taking Rams' fans questions. I live in San Antonio and have been a fan since the early 1970s, so you are one of the ways I keep abreast of the Rams' progress. I have mixed feelings about the draft. I know that fans are upset with Avery, but I am going to allow time to determine the outcome of that issue. My question deals with the issue of LB's. I was hoping we would address this issue earlier than the 7th round. I know we have a 4-3, but we use a 3-4 type of defense on many occassions. Are our 7th rounders going to pan out at LB's? I am skeptical? if not, what are the Rams going to do to remedy this problem? Or, what should the Rams do? As I said, I am a Rams fan since the 1970s, so I hope for less pain than last year when I watch the games on Direct TV. My wife says I am a masochist.
Thanks for being a connector for Rams' fans,
John
Jim Thomas: I too have mixed feelings about the draft. I thought the Rams would pop on an LB in the fourth round. I was a little surprised to see them add another WR there (in Kentucky's Keenan Burton). The Rams had only five LBs on the offseason roster prior to the draft. (Mizzou's Dedrick Harrington, who was singed just before the draft as a street free agent, would've been a sixth, but he's being converted to TE.)
Anyway, the Rams will keep seven LBs on their final roster, so the numbers seem to favor both guys. Both the LBs run fairly well and were very productive in college. Mr. Irrelevant, David Vobora, was even invited to the Combine and tested well there.(The Rams did add a couple of rookie free agents after the draft, and I'm sure they will look around at any bargain basement FAs this spring and even this summer to see if they can add another veteran.)
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RJ: JT:
When will the curvy blue horned sheep get it right. In the 3rd round they had a chance to pick Dan Connor out of LineBackerU and they blew it. Instead we get another OL who needs time to develop. Haven't we had enuf of those???? With Pisa (God bless him) about on his last brittle leg and The Spoon needing to get back to the outside, Connor could have bulked up a little and filled a REAL NEED!!!!!!!! When will they get it? This draft did not make us a contenduh!!!!
Jim Thomas: I think Penn State LBs of late have been a little overrated. Connor, I believe, is smaller than Witherspoon.
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Rampage88: Hey Jim! It seems to be a good draft, but it could have been better. Long will be a great player and a team leader for many years. We filled needs and provided competition for several positions going into camp. I think we could still use a veteran tackle to back up Pace, although I don't know who that would be? Next season looks tough. How many games will this team have to win for the coaching staff to remain the same? Haslett and Saunders are great coaches in my opinion. Linehan, I am not so sure, but I give him TONS of credit for hiring those two.
Jim Thomas: I think the over-under for Linehan's return is 6 1/2 (wins).
As for veteran OTs, Fred Miller is available.
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Mark in NY: Jim, I like the OL picks (that's about all), but my question is this... if all of last year's guys are healthy, are we going to end up with too many lineman? I mean... I was excited about last year's young guys, until they all got hurt. I guess we will keep the best 10 or so and let the rest get picked off waivers? Then, if we have injuries, we stick the new guys in and get a repeat of last year? I just don't see how we "upgraded" the line, other than having new faces to put in this year. Your thoughts...
Jim Thomas: Here's how the depth chart shakes out right now:
LT--Pace, Goldberg
(Yes, Goldberg--When he played for new line coach Loney a few years ago in Minny, Goldberg was an effective LT. The Rams will try him there again.)
LG--Bell, (backup????)
C--Romberg, Setterstrom
RG--Incognito
RT--Barron, Gorin
So that's 8 lineman. Does that leave Fry at LG? Schuening, the fifth-rounder is a RG. John Greco, the third-rounder, will start out at RT, but Rams officials feel his future may be at guard. So adding Fry, Schuening and Greco, that leaves what I feel are 11 viable candidates for a spot on the final 53. The Rams will keep nine or 10. The odds are probably pretty good that someone gets hurt in training camp or the preseason. And keep in mind, Incognito's contract is up after this season.
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Tim Baltes: yes----I am asking about the Avery pick as well. Even IF he ends up being the next I. Bruce, why would we not trade down 15 or so picks and get an extra 3rd and 4th rounder knowing that not a single WR had been taken? The odds of this little known receiver being taken in the next 15 picks would be small. And even if he had, do you believe that he was so much GREATER of a pick that there would be no one comparable in rating 15 picks later? At most 4-5 receivers would have been taken in those next picks. I was saying all along---trade this pick on Lito Shepperd. He isn't great, but he is good....and sure enough, after it is all said and done, we could have gotten him and then probably Avery with our third rounder...
Jim Thomas: As I explained before, the Rams wanted Avery, they didn't like at lot of the other more name wide receivers because of injury or off-the-field problems. And since the Rams felt 8 to 10 teams also liked Avery best, that he might not be available later in the second round.
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Mike - Colorado Springs: With the additions of Avery and Burton through the draft is the writing on the wall for Dante Hall? He is familiar with the offense and may still have value as a return guy but I think both drafted receivers also have return experience. There no longer seems to be a place for Hall as a receiver in this offense unless somebody gets hurt or one of the new guys doesn't make the team. The latter seems only to be a remote possiblity. I would think that Stanley has more value because of his age and speed. Maybe they keep Hall and let go of Looker. Certainly one of the three (Hall, Looker, Stanley) will be gone. Hagans is just an afterthought at this point.
Jim Thomas: I talked some about Hall in an earlier post. Here's the thing. Despite his relatively advanced age for a return man, and his injury problems a year ago, and his cap #, just when you think it's time to put him out to pasture, he returns one for 85 yards.
If nothing else, the competition should be very interesting at WR. The Rams are clearly trying to send a message at that position that it's time to produce or. . . .
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Dino From Sacramento: Hello Jim,
The Draft is now over and on to Mini Camps. Any idea who will be the project quarterback?
Thanks
Dino
Jim Thomas: In terms of project quarterbacks in the draft, or even rookie free agents, there's nobody left. If a player is taken from that pool, we're talking camp arm.
But keep an eye on Tampa Bay, where the Bucs have I believe 7 QBs on their roster. They can't keep 'em all.
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George: Hey Jim-
Just to switch gears from all the post draft talk, can you elaborate alittle bit on the Rams plans for Anthony Becht, the new TE acquired from Tampa Bay? As a Syracuse alum, I remember watching him from his college days at West Virginia and the Marc Bulger to Becht connection was devastating to the Orange for 3yrs! It seemed like every year, WVU would run a middle post Bulger to Becht that was good for 20yds everytime, with Becht finishing the day at 4-5 catches for 60 yards on the day and a touchdown. The Rams got a real gem in Becht and was wondering if he will be used in a receiving capacity or is it strictly for blocking? Also have you talked to Bulger about his thoughts on having his former teammate and good buddy on board with the Rams? Thanks Jim!
Jim Thomas: Becht is the replacement for Aaron Walker as the Rams' blocking tight end. If you remember last year's Rams-Bucs game, when RB Earnest Graham had his coming out party in the second half, Becht was absolutely destroying the Rams' defensive front with his run-blocking. That's what the Rams got him for, but they're also cognizant of the fact that Becht can be an occasionally target in the red zone and on third down. Like you, I believe Becht was an underrated pickup in free agency.
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Andy: Hey Jim! Ready to get some sleep now that all the Draft excitement is finally over with?
First, I was wondering what the word is from the Rams about Donnie Avery. I know what virtues of his the Rams are touting--namely, speed, YAC, and overall production in college. For the record, I'm glad they took a WR with those attributes, and I am excied about Avery's potential. He COULD be exactly what the doctor ordered for our offense (along with a couple of quality o-linemen--Welcome aboard, John Greco and Roy Schuening!) HOWEVER... I, like a lot of others, have to wonder: In the Rams' mind, what made Avery the top choice over, say, DeSean Jackson, who seemed to exhibit many of the same abilities and came from more of a marquee program? What does Avery bring to the field that Jackson doesn't? (Not to nitpick, either, but Avery probably would have been there later, right?)
Second, now that the Long vs. Dorsey issue is settled (though the debate will go on, I'm sure), can you clarify what the starting interior of our defensive line looks like at this point? I know Carriker will start in one tacke spot, but will it be at the nose next to Glover, or as the three-technique guy next to Ryan?
Third, am I interpreting the Rams correctly as saying that UVA's defensive system may not have allowed Long to take full advantage of his physical capabilities as a pass rusher, particularly coming off the edge? YET HE STILL POSTED 14 SACKS?! If that's true, he really could turn out to be a monster on the defensive front, as opposed to just being the "safe, dependable choice" he seems to be getting cast as now (I think he's quite a bit more than that already, but you get my point).
Finally, I personally was divided in the whole Dorsey-Long debate. I thought there were plenty of compelling arguments for either player. NOW, I AM THRILLED THAT CHRIS LONG IS A ST. LOUIS RAM. I think he will be a big-time player here and a fan favorite for years to come. That said, what is the point of spending countless hours watching tape, attending workouts, doing interviews, etc. to stack a draft board, then, when the NUMBER 1 PLAYER on that board falls to you, you pass him up? Seems like there's some inefficiency or wasted energy or something in there. Again, I'm not knocking the pick. I'm ecstatic about Long. I just find the process odd.
Jim Thomas: Check out a couple of the early posts for my thoughts on the drafting of Avery.
As for the Rams' starting DL--It will look like this:
RDE--Chris Long
DT--La'Roi Glover
DT--Adam Carriker
LDE--Leonard Little
James Hall will be the third DE--rotating in to spell Long and Little. Adeyanju is also in the mix, but at this point has shown he's only valuable as a run-defender.
At DT, the Rams want to reduce Glover's snaps. He is still surprisingly effective at his age as a pass rusher, but can get smothered by big OGs in the run game. That's where Ryan, rotating in DT, can help. The mystery man is Wroten, who has been one of the hardest-working Rams this offseason. He's been a regular at Rams Park since January. Has the light finally gone on? We'll see.
Virginia played a 3-4, with Long as an end in the 3-4. That meant he frequently lined up either right on the tackle or even shaded to the tackle's inside. He didn't line up wide _ as you see with Leonard Little for example _ very often. He will have the time to do that in a 4-3.
As exciting as Long's 14 sacks were in '07, he had only 7 _ total _ in his first three seasons at UVA. So he's hardly had a longstanding reputation as a great pass rusher in college.
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Dominic: Hey Jim!
Great job this past weekend on the radio and thru print.With these selections this past weekend,which I might add were acceptable with me,does it clearly show that Billy Devaney is clearly in charge?
I was worried about Glen Dorseys health with his back and knee injuries from the past,were you and the Rams personnel department too?
And do you feel like Dante Hall and Dane Looker and Hagans are definitely on the bubble this training camp?
Thank you and please continue these chats...you are the best!
Jim Thomas: By the way, is this Dominic Genetti from Northwest Missouri State? Just wondering.
At the end of the day, I can't really tell you for sure if Devaney is in charge. (I say this largely because of the late "tweaking" of the Rams' draft board.) It seemed liked Devaney had more input. But it would be naive to think that Jay Zygmunt and John Shaw were strictly neutral observers.
I don't know about the bubble, but Hall, Hagans, Looker and Stanley probably realize they better be on their game in camp and the preseason.
Although the Rams wouldn't out and out say it, I think there probably was some concern about Dorsey's health, even though he was cleared by the team doctors.
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Gabriel to Snow: Oh, the hysteria! I too had to force my mouth closed & my eyes back in my skull more than once this weekend. But this is exactly why Billy Devaney was hired. If all we had to do for a perfect draft was follow the advice of Kiper & his cohorts, we would need no scouts, no draft day decision makers at all. Get an A+ from the "gurus", & our draft is a success, our worries are over! Horse dookie! Draft "experts" grades & opinions are a semi-useful tool at best. A guide to help decide who & what to research in depth. I wanted Chris Long. We had ZERO home field advantage last year. Dorsey may be another Sapp, but even Warren was not that much fun to watch. Dorsey was a game wrecker in college, but NFL offensive lineman will be up to the challenge for awhile, & it's much easier to double the tackle than the DE. Which leaves the DE to be the hero. Chris is the perfect new face of the team, saying all the right things, & it's hard not to believe him. His work ethic & outstanding techniques have him prepared to be a factor from first snap. He can help us take back the Ed. You can't help but root for a kid like him. The more I learned about Avery & the questions dogging other wideouts, the more I appreciate the thorough scouting & the guts it took to make that pick. Avery did exactly what he was asked to do in college, & his character is such that he will do the same for us. We don't have Ike to show him how to beat the press & run routes, but Henry Ellard is no slouch. King seems the biggest reach, but Lito didn't show, & we need competition at CB. It will be entertaining to see how this plays out. In a very real sense, the careers of several ride on the success of this draft to a large degree. They had the courage to put their heads on the chopping block, just like the Texans did with Mario Williams, & who would take Reggie Bush now? Let's not swing the axe until the verdict is in.
Jim, what is your sense of the attitude in Ram nation, am I in the minority? I hope to see Rams fans this year, not Rams critics.
P.S.- Love pick 252, the Idaho Vandal, Linehan's old school if I am not mistaken, he may actually become "relavent"!
Jim Thomas: Gabe, you had a lot to get off your chest. My sense of Rams nation is that the majority is OK (or better) in terms of C. Long. but the Avery pick was a reach.
But you bring up a good point about these draft services: Kiper, Pro Football Weekly, etc. They are NOT the end-all be-all. And it takes 2-to-3 years minimun to properly evaluate the draft.
I will say this about the Rams '08 class--to a very large degree, they all played a lot in college, avoided injuries, and didn't get in trouble off the field. Unlike some of the old days when the Rams tried to show they were smarter than everyone else, all of these picks at least seemed logical on paper.
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Mark in Dallas: Hello JT;
hope everything is good in St.lou and down at Crown Candy.
I know it is too early to tell but I would think it would be easier to draft a DE with speed and tenacity than a DL who is likened to Warren Sapp. I would have taken Dorsey, what would you have done? Also I am happy with the pick in the 3d but what about Avery in the 2nd and the other receiver we picked? What are your thoughts?
Mark
Jim Thomas: Unlike fans, or some members of our local media, I don't have a rooting interest on such matters. On Dorsey-Long, I just can't past the fact that Dorsey was the highest-rated player on their board _ by a significant margin until later in the week_ and the Rams passed on him.
I've already discussed Avery in earlier posts.
The third receiver Burton is intriguing. He played through a lot of injuries last season that would have sidelined others (A torn meniscus cartilage, for example, is no small injury for a WR.) I think Burton missed only one game last season. Had he posted the numbers he did in '06, when he was healthy, he wouldn't have been available late in the fourth.
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Gabriel to Snow: Some draft observations & predictions. We won't know for some time, but here we go.
1. The Chiefs draft is percieved as SO perfect, there is nowhere to go but down. Unless most of these picks excel quickly, disappointment will reign, & Herm may take the blame. They won't be patient for three years in KC, another staff will reap the benefits of these picks, (which largely just fell in there laps).
2. Barring a trade, Lovie will pay for not drafting a QB in chicago.
3. Eric Ainge will surprise in NY. (wish we had him)
4. McFadden will NOT be the best RB in this draft.
5. Trevor Laws will prove he belonged in the first round.
6. Matt Ryan will NOT be the best QB in this years draft. (may take awhile, but he will be eclipsed)
7. My most confident prediction, as with most prognosticators, I will be WRONG on at least half of my predictions.
Jim, what's your take on my crystal ball?
Jim Thomas: I'll answer a few that I have strong opinions on:
1.) I loved the Chiefs draft. They got the best defensive player in the draft (Dorsey), and either the second_ or third-best offensive lineman in Albert (some might have clady ahead of him). And Flowers, although slow, could be an effective DB.
2.) Lovie should have addressed the QB situation a couple of years ago.
3.) At most, Matt Ryan was a mid to late first round draft pick. One NFC scout that I talked to said his team had Ryan rated as a THIRD-ROUNDER!
I just could never get past Ryan's 19 INTs. OK, I'll buy into the fact that his supporting cast at BC may not have been the best. But how many INTs is Ryan going to throw against NFL secondaries, that disguise their coverages, and have faster personnel?
It was a lousy QB class, one of the worst in years. But Falcons owner Arthur Blank wanted Ryan. Best of luck, Art.
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RamRon: Jim,
The only Rams draft pick I questioned was the 4th pick. Justin King was the 14th cornerback selected. Beau Bell, an OLB from UNLV, projected to be an ILB in the NFL and rated as one of the top ILB's by most analysts and publications, was still available.
I question why the Rams passed on Bell for King. Seems to me that they have more depth at cornerback, using 2nd, 1st and 3rd round picks in the last 3 drafts, than they do at linebacker. I'm one of the fans who believe Witherspoon would be more effective at OLB, where he would be positioned to blitz more in a 4-3. Bell as MLB would allow WW to move outside, and seems like he would at least have been an improvement at MLB backup over McGarigle. When the defense shifts to a 3-4, wouldn't Bell being inside allow WW to be the edge or buck rusher that we would need in that alignment? Seems like the most momentum the defense garnered last season was the period where WW was blitzing regularly and getting either sacks or pressure.
I'm hoping that the shoulder injury that King was supposedly playing with last year was the cause for the drop in his play from the previous year.
Please comment. Thanks.
Jim Thomas: I confess, I don't know much about Bell and have no idea if the Rams were interested in him. However, I did think the Rams would go for a linebacker in Round 4.
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Benjamin: Hey JT,
First off I just want to thank you for your in-depth knowledge & professionalism regarding the Rams, it's refreshing after reading all the draft stuff this weekend.
1. It's way too early to know how the Rams did on draft day in terms of hitting on players that will be productive for them. For the most part I think the guys they drafted appear as if they could give solid contributions, even though they seem to have stuck to the past philosophy of drafting "projects" in some respects. What we can judge at this point is how the front office performed with draft management.
I'm sure we're all curious as to why Devaney didn't trade down in the 2nd round when he knew the guy he wanted surely wouldn't be the first WR selected?
It's a bit confusing because in the later rounds he showed a willingness to move up and get guys he had targeted. This makes the 2nd round choice all the more puzzling to me when LBS Lofton, Conner, and DB Flowers we're available with that pick. Why not take a talent at another need position, then aggressively trade back into the 2nd round to get Avery if it looked like WRs were flying off the board?
I don't understand why he didn't follow his board to start off the draft, then adhered to it rigidly thereafter?
2. I guess I've never been a fan of drafting for need. I generally like the Ozzie Newsome or Phil Savage approach of taking the best talent available. Even the way it seems Bill Polian has found a nice balance of going need in round 1 or 2 then going best talent after that. Maybe I got the wrong impression from what was said about going into day 2 and being determined to take an OT with their first pick, but that sure makes it sound like this draft was all about need, need, need. What is the general consensus around the league & within the Rams about locking in on a need to the point where you're passing on superior talent with most every pick?
Thanks
Jim Thomas: Again, if you read my earlier posts, the Rams had Avery that highly-rated, and were afraid of a trade-down because they knew of several other teams that supposedly had Avery rated No. 1 at WR on their boards.
As you are, I'm puzzled why the Rams strayed from their board in Round 1.
The worst mistake you can make in drafting is straying from board for need in the early rounds. You just can't pass on potentially great players.
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Gabriel to Snow: Jim, maybe you can help clear some things up for me.
1. Am I correct that Arkansas had 2 backs go in round 1, but no O-lineman drafted? I didn't see the Razorback ballcarriers breaking many tackles at the line of scrimmage. SOMEBODY must have opened up those holes!
2. Did an Alabama player EVER get drafted? If not, has that ever happened in the "modern" era?
3. I see the Rams are signing free agents, some of interest. However, with no QB drafted, our commitment to carry 3, & Brock Berlin the only barrier to an NFL paycheck, you'd think we'd be fighting off the out of work signal callers looking for a good camp. You'd also think we'd WANT some competition for Brock, what gives?
Jim Thomas: 1.) I don't know, I think those RBs are pretty good.
2.) No Alabama player was drafted. I would think it's happened before, but not very often.
3.) I guess they're still working on it. Like I said before, keep an eye on Tampa Bay.
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Gabriel to Snow: Hey Jim, are you aware of the fuss ESPN made of Army's Caleb Campbell? It was great, & I totally support Army's decision to be the only branch of the armed forces (so far) to adjust the service requirements of an athlete offered a pro career. I will be following his progress at Detroit, along with thousands of Army faithful.
Why would a great athlete choose any other branch of the service? Unless the others fall in line, I wouldn't bet on Navy too often.
Have you heard from your son? Was the caleb Campbell story a big deal up there?
Jim Thomas: I just happened to look up at the TV in the Rams Park media room and caught some of the Campbell stuff. It was great. Army just changed their regulations to allow Cadets to go right into the NFL. They also had a FB by the name of Viti (sp?) signed as a rookie free agent.
I did shot a "Go Army!" and a couple of "Houaas!" once I saw the pick. I called my son shortly thereafter, and happened to get him on his cell phone right away _ which NEVER happens. He was aware of the pick, but knee-deep in homework so we didn't talk long.
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Matt: Hey Jim,
I know it's jumping the gun a little..okay..a lot, but I noticed we didn't draft any safties this year. Do you think we could be eyeing a safety like USC's Kevin Ellison, or possibly a Tarrell Brown out of Texas? Those guys are solid playmakers that bring the wood to say the least. I think they would bring the attitude and skill we need to the SS position. I know we still have Chavous but these would be good additions to sponge off of his knowledge as well as push Jerome Carter to be the player we saw in college. Please let me know your thoughts.
Jim Thomas: The Rams did like Tyrell Johnson of Arkansas State. Had he lasted through to the third round, he might have been a Ram. BUt he went only 10 picks after Donnie Avery in the second round. Don't know about the prospects you are mentioning, but I would think safety would be a higher priority in the '09 draft. I think the Rams realize Chavous' career is winding down.
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sean: shouldnt we have tried to throw a pass to byrd before cutting him? during his whole stay here, we never just lined him up and threw him a pass. he is a playmaker, not a blocker, all we needed to do was let him play. instead we complain that he's a bust, and a bad character guy. the guy cant make a play without some one throwing him the ball, it's just something i dont undrstand.
Jim Thomas: Byrd didn't do much to get himself on the field. His practice habits were slovenly. He feel asleep in team meetings so often that coaches actually had him STAND UP during at least one team meeting in an effort to try to keep him awake.
Heck, he didn't even make the team plane for the regular-season finale against Arizona.
I do not feel sorry for Byrd. If you're mad at the coaching staff or front office, be mad at them for drafting the guy in the first place.
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John Riggs: Thanks, Jim, for your time: As a Rams fan I hope to be proven wrong, but it looks like our first two picks have far less value, relative to their drafting position, than the later picks. Have we not drafted Grant Wistrom (Chris Long) instead of Warren Sapp (Glenn Dorsey) and Clyde Duncan (Donnie Avery) instead of Koren Robinson (Devin Thomas)?
Jim Thomas: Haslett feels Long is a more athletic version of Wistrom. But he does think that Dorsey is the best DT prospect to come along since Sapp in '95. (The Rams, by the way, passed on Sapp that year _ who was fighting off drug use reports at the time _ for Kevin Carter.
As for Avery, you do know that he played much of the '07 season with a dislocated thumb? I don't think that injury showed up in many of the pre-draft publications. And to call him the next Clyde Duncan _ c'mon _ Avery did catch 210 college passes. How many did Duncan have? (But don't get me wrong, I too am wondering if they got the right guy.)
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Chip: I liked how the Rams drafted...however, could they have done a trade down and gotten maybe one more 'impact' player, seems like we sorta picked a little high for the first 2 picks to me?
Thanks,
Chip
Jim Thomas: Chip--You have put in condensed fashion my thoughts on Day 1 as well. It does look like they picked a little high for Long and Avery. But keep in mind, it keeps two to trade down. And the Rams weren't going to trade down unless the compensation was worth it.
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bfulton: In contexts other than the Rams' Leonard Little, ESPN's "NFL Live" commentators Floyd Reese and Mark Schlereth have bemoaned the great difficulty in coming back from toe injuries. Though they weren't talking about Little, it has me worried. Any updates on his recovery? Does anybody at Rams Park worry that this is career-ending injury?
Jim Thomas: Well, I think there probably is at least some concern behind the scenes, and that may have contributed to the selection of Chris Long. But I am told, by good sources, that the surgery went well, and Little should be fine. Even beyond the toe, he does turn 34 in October.
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Ryan C.: Hey Jim!
I was really shocked when the Rams drafted Donnie Avery over DeSean Jackson, Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas etc. What do you know about Avery? Do you think that was a good pick? I personally liked Kelly and Jackson but I'll keep an open mind on Avery.
Jim Thomas: I know Kelly's injury problems concerned the Rams. Maybe is 40-time tantrum did so as well.
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Justin Trout: Hey Jim!
Well the draft is over and we can all give our two cents worth of how the Rams did. Not bad...but not great. I think we have some guys to work with and feel that most will at least make the team. One question that comes to mind is what undrafted rookie free agents have we signed or are looking at signing? They may not be big names, but nobody thought Culberson had a chance either....
Thanks for the Chats and the info!
Justin
Jim Thomas: By know you've seen the list of rookie free agents. Most are at position where the Rams want to add depth _ for camp, not for the regular season. But keep an eye on the fullbacks, and who knows where the next Culberson, Fletcher, or Warner might come from? It was very surprising to see no QB on the list.
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Mike: Jim -- I noticed Ali Highsmith from LSU wan't drafted. Tell my why the Rams won't sign him to a deal and at least see what he can do at safety. The guy was a masher in college, played for a great program and would seem to be a great fit at safety in the pros. Are there any other FAs the Rams are considering or are they maxed out?
Jim Thomas: As you may have noticed, the Rams didn't sign Highsmith as a rookie FA. As for why he didn't get drafted, maybe there's something going on that we don't know about.
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Faris Chehabi: Hey, I am from Dallas, TX and am 15 years old, and finally on September 28, 2008, I am flying on a plane from Dallas at 9 AM that day to watch my St. Louis Rams. I am a die hard fan and my parents finally let me go. This is a dream come true for me and I am literally counting the days I enter Edwards Jones Dome. My questions is: Do you have any recommendations for how to get autographs or talk to players? I will be getting to the game early to watch the Rams warm up with probably a sign saying I'm from Dallas. If I got to meet a Rams player it would be the best day of my life. How does it work down there in St. Louis if you get to the game like 3 hours early. Please let me know and tell me anything else that is important for me to go. Thanks a lot. GO RAMS!!!!
Jim Thomas: You might have a better chance if your sign says: RAMS FANS FROM DALLAS.
Unfortunately, the Dome doors don't open until 1 1/2 hours before kickoff. As soon as you get inside, look for the tunnel where the Rams are coming in and out of the locker room. That's you best bet for contact with the players, although they're usually to tuned in to the game at that time for autographs, although some have been known to throw wristbands, gloves, etc., up to the stands after the game.
Also, prior to the dome doors opening, the players usually cross the street from the Drury Inn to the dome in street clothes. I don't know if they have a pre-game meal at the Drury or what. But they're in street clothes, and this usually happens around 2 1/2 hours before kickoffs.
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Joel: Hi Jim:
Thank you for your time. Great Job.
This is my problem with Scott Linehan and correct me if I'm wrong. It is the job of the head coach to put his team in a position to win. The Rams were hardly in a position to win last year, especially when it came to the offense.
We didn't and/or couldn't stretch a defense. When Steven Jackson ran the ball, he was almost always hit immediately. When it was 3rd and 8, we would throw a 5 yard pass. The offense was so predictable that it was infuriating. For Lihehan to blame it on the injuries doesn't make a lot of sense. How much worse of a record would the Rams have if you or I were the head coach?
Is it possible to ask him this very question and how he plans to be more creative?
Jim Thomas: Someone must have been thinking the same thing _ or something along these lines. Because they hired Al Saunders as their offensive coordinator.
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Tom Stewart: In your honest opinion, do you think Avery will be an impact player for the Rams? Also, are we really considering releasing Dante Hall? He is a great return man and although he is dropping because of age, he did great last season when he was healthy. What do you think?
Jim Thomas: I don't know what to say about Avery. Like you, I'm anxious to see him in camp and in the preseason.
I know there's been some speculation on Hall because of his age and injuries last season. There was a little bit of scuttlebutt, too, that he "shut it down" too early last year after aggravating his ankle injury. In addition, I've been told, he has fallen well short of perfect attendance this spring during the offseason conditioning program. But there's no denying his skill. We'll see.
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Mikael Roberats: Who will be starting at DT? Carriker and ______. Will it be Clifton Ryan, or La'roi Glover? Also, I think our defensive line is going to be great next season. Long, Little, Carriker, Glover, Ryan. What do you think the defensive line will achieve next year?
Jim Thomas: I think it will be Carriker and Glover, but the Rams do want to play Glover less, and you may see more of Ryan in running siutiatons.
With good health, and a solid return from toe surgery by Little, I think this line could be much improved, although I still have my doubts about how it will hold up against big o-lines (Dallas) or teams that like to pound the football.
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Eli Marrero: Which WR's do you think will make the team. I say: Holt, Bennett, Avery, Burton, Stanley, Hall, Caldwell. What do you think?
Jim Thomas: They will keep only six. Right now, I'd say Holt, Bennett and Avery are the only sure things. This is going to be one of the most interesting positions in camp and the preseason.
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Eli Marrero: Who will be competing for the job of Kickoff and punt return man and who do you think will get it?
Jim Thomas: It's still Hall's to lose. Interestingly, Avery and Burton are more experienced on kickoffs than punts, so I don't know how the backup PR guy is at the moment. (Hagans? Looker?) Stanley's much better on KORs than PRs at this point as well. And all these guys aren't going to make the final 53.
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John Switzel: What will the CB look like on the depth chart. I say: Brown, Hill, Wade, King. What do you say?
Jim Thomas: Brown and Hill as the starters. Bartell as the No. 3. Wade or Macklin as the No. 4. King probably as the No. 5. (The Rams could even keep 6 CBs this year.)
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Joseph Piles: What's this I hear about Holt wanting to go to Carolina?? I was so upset when I heard that! Is this really possible? Losing another Future Hall of Famer and Super Champ with the Rams (Bruce). If he doesn't end up going to Carolina, doesn't this mean that he doesn't really want to be with the Rams and is giving up them which means he wont try as hard? Please let me know as I am very upset!
Jim Thomas: You know, I heard about that sound bite (made at his charity golf tournament in N. Carolina) through a good friend, but I never saw it. I think it was said along the lines of, "once my time is done in St. Louis" etc. So it wasn't like he was demanding a trade. Still, Holt obviously wasn't a happy camper at the end of the season. I'm sure he liked the hiring of Al Saunders, but I'm equally sure he was NOT happy over the release of Isaac Bruce.
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Joseph Piles: Is the Lito Sheppard trade officialy over? I think we could really use him and if we got him we would have great CB's. Also are there any other trades the Rams seem interested in or small free agent signings. Let me know. Thanks.
Jim Thomas: Well, it's over in terms of the 2008 draft. I think the Eagles discovered that the market for Sheppard was far lower than they anticipated.
By the way, now that the draft is over, I can tell that the trade I had hinted at weeks and weeks ago involved a center (I'm not going to say from which team). You know, this was the so-called "big trade" that somehow grew to mythic proportions by some, including some of my media colleagues. It was never that big a deal.
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michael_gordon: does j.king even make the roster? Hill, Brown, Wade, Bartell, bassey are locks....and macklin and vinnett are good football players.....
also, i heard about possibly moving bassey to safety, in one of linehan and devaneys interview...would that be FS or SS?
Jim Thomas: Bassey is being moved to safety. Given his size, it would have to be FS. (and as I mentioned earlier today, the Rams could keep 6 corners).
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jl: a few observations from the draft, see if you agree...
- They love Culberson. They didn't draft a LB that will compete with him until mr. irrelevant
- The rams hate their WR corps. Devaney clearly sees nothing in Hagans or Looker. they wont make the team
- The rams aren't sure, but they hope Orlando Pace makes a full recovery. They wanted to draft a LT but couldn't find one really...so it looks like barron will slide over in an injury
- They like pittman enough. They didn't draft a RB so you've got to think they have something there
- The rams think chavous can give it at least one more time around. No SS???
- Ryan is a starting caliber DT.
- Brian Leonard is a good enough FB in their opinion. Richard owens is still on the roster but im sure he won't be for long. Lets hope one of these UDFA can help there, push him off the roster.
- Finally, Scott Linehan is OBSESSED with speed
Jim Thomas: 1.) They like Culberson. But Draft enters camp as the starter there.
2.) They want more competition at WR.
3.) They are rolling the dice somewhat on Pace
4.) If Felix Jones had lasted until No. 33 of the second round, he would have been a Ram.
5.) Correct on Chavous
6.) I think Glover still starts, but Ryan has a bigger role.
7.) I don't know how they plan to use Leonard. I'm not sure he knows.
8.) Linehan realized the Rams needed to get faster at WR; Haslett likes speed at the corner.
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Mark: Jim,
I'll try to post a few of questions that hopefully will be different from the standards.
1. I thought the Rams would draft or sign a undrafted QB, since they did not, what is the plan?
2. Drafting two OL, do you think either will start (e.g. are some of the injuries from last year not healing or is management getting sick of bonehead penalties false starts and personal fouls?) and what do you envision the starting line to be?
3. In reading the write-up's for our draft it seems that I saw a lot of the same adjectives (hard-working, smart, dedicated, etc.), I'm happy to see the organization is leaning towards high character players and not knuckleheads like Byrd (who thankfully was just cut). How long is Wroten's leash?
Thanks for the insight!
Jim Thomas: 1.) So did I. I don't know what the plan is. There's really nothing but camp arms left in rookie free agency. I think there best bet might be to sign a young QB with some NFL experience.
2.) I don't think either will start this year, barring injury.
Starting OL: Pace LT; Bell LG; Romberg-Setterstrom C: Incognito RG; Barron RT.
3.) Geez, if we in the media heard some variation of the phrase "smart, passionate, productive" once, we heard it a dozen times over the weekend. It made me wonder if they had a sign with those words posted somewhere in the draft board. I think it's a wise course to take given Sheriff Goodell's "limited tolerance" policy on miscreants. Wroten's leash got longer when the Rams drafted Long instead of Dorsey.
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dave: thanks for the forum jim
out of the UDFA's, who are the most likely to stick, im thinking FB, LB's...
also, is there gonna be a QB added, dont they need one to throw to the WR's at rookie orientation?
Jim Thomas: Yeah, I would say FB No. 1; LB No. 2. They're still looking for a QB. I was surprised they didn't draft at QB late; but even more surprised they didn't sign one in rookie free agency. Linehan thinks some teams may have used a form of negative recruiting after the draft in terms of signing undrafted free agents. (Believe it or not, this period _ in the few hours after the draft _ is really competitive.) Anyway, Linehan thinks some other NFL teams looking for undrafted FAs at QB may have told QB prospects that also had been contacted by the Rams something along the lines of: "Why would you want to go to St. Louis, they're only going to be keeping two QBs?" Linehan has made it clear, at least to the media, that he wants to keep three this season.
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Curt, CA: Hey Jim,
The Rams had such a good draft over the weekend, how can they sign such a lousy free agent group?
Yvensen Bernard? All 5-8 of him? With 4.73 speed? How about Houston's Anthony Alridge (5-9 180) with 4.36 speed, RB, can play WR, and excellent punt returner?
The Alabama WR I'm okay with, although he is a little slow, but how do you pass on someone like Hawaii's Bryan Grice-Mullen (5-11 190 4.36)? I can gaurantee you he caught "a few" balls in his time!
And two (2) undersized DT's? For what? There is no depth at NT behind Ryan, so wouldn't big-time experienced guys like Va Tech's Barry Booker (6-4 290), WVU's Keilen Dykes (6-3 295), or Akron's Nate Robinson (6-4 305) have been better?
The Rams stressed character all weekend, so why not Iowa's DE Bryan Mattison? That is someone who gives 100% all the time!
LB Hall I have no problem with, but why not also add Ali Highsmith (LSU 6-0 223) and/or Wesley Woodyard (Kentucky 6-1 227 4.51!)instead of another D-II filler?
Not sure who the CB is, but at least give the local guy a shot! Darnell Terrell (Missouri 6-2 4.4) should have been signed, and you could also make a case for Stillman's Brian Witherspoon (5-10 180 4.29 40").
And while we're talking high character, high motor guys, why would you pass on BC's SS Jamie Silva?
Unbelievable!
Jim Thomas: Geez, maybe you should have my job. You're more up on these guys than I am.
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Dan: Hey Jim, what was the deal with Chad Henne? He said the Rams called and said they were going to trade up to get him, I haven't heard any talk about this. Also do you think the defensive line we have now could be the best the Rams have had since they came to St. Louis? Thanks
Jim Thomas: I'm glad you brought this up. It was totally false. Don't quote me on this, but I told it might have been someone saying he was Linehan. There was also some weird stuff going on _ I'm told _ with someone trying to be Henne's agent. But two Rams officials told me emphatically that it was not the case. That's not to say that Linehan didn't like Henne _ heck, he brought him in for a pre-draft visit. But not to the point of trading up into the second round.
As for the D-Line--I think they'd have to go a long ways to top Carter, Farr, Agnew, and Wistrom on the '99 Super Bowl squad.
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randy travis: how are we gonna stretch the field with these new receivers when we still have the same quarterback - bulger ...... dont u think other teams know by now that bulger is a wiz at passes 25 yards and under in the middle of the field but dosent have the arm stregth to complete deep passes ........ his entire career he has shown he underthrows the deep ball badly even when the receivers are wide open ..... i mean heck the last bomb we caught for a td was the torry holt circus catch against the seahawks two years ago .... and that ball of course was horrible underthrown as usual and it took holts circus catch to bail him out .... and we wont even discuss bulgers horrible red zone quarterbacking where real qbs distinguish themselves while pretenders fade away ..... oops, i just did discuss it ... oh well ......... so anyways back to my original question .... even if we had carl lewis in his prime, how are we gonna be able to stretch the field with bulger at quarterback? ........ i mean i dont even think he can throw the ball more than 40 yards past the line of scrimmage .
Jim Thomas: Randy Travis? When's the last time he had a hit song?
Your points are well taken on Bulger's ability to throw the deep ball. But when you factor in the rib problems last season, and shoulder problems earlier, I think he throws an acceptable deep ball.
As for Bulger's red zone throwing, last year was one thing, but the year before he was terrific down there. I'm not saying he's Johnny Unitas, but obviously you're not a Bulger fan.
I'm going to pick up my 11-year-old from school. Give me about 15 minutes and I'll be back. I'm going to go about another hour on the chat when I get back. I'll try to answer as many as I can. It's been fun today. Lot's of good questions.
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mr. starks: Hey Jim, a couple of things...
First off, the obvious, our 2nd round pick Avery... I'm just fine with us getting him, but why did we not trade down to later in the second round and pick up an additional pick? or better yet just get Devin Thomas!
And can the Rams now negotiate with our picks? We know how important it is to get our players into camp and I wouldn't think Long with his character will be too much of a problem. I would also think Howie will really express how important it is to get into camp. Last thing, how much do you see Long signing for? I'm worried when we sign him and have to worry about Atogwe and Jackson that we will be in some cap trouble.
Jim Thomas: Yes. Rams can now negotiated with there picks. Long's agent, Marvin Demoff, is a very good friend of Shaw. So even though Shaw doesn't really handle negotiations, I don't see this one being a problem. Particularly, since we already know what No. 1 (Jake Long) is getting.
See my earlier answers on Avery. And as I mentioned before, I think there were some off-field concerns on Thomas.
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Tim: Do you think Grecco will beat Barron for starting job at RT?
Jim Thomas: Not this year. But I think Greco has the ability to be a starter, although his future may be at guard and not tackle.
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doug norman: regarding the "spygate" problem....i see no way that goodell will ever let it get out should walsh have videotape of the rams SB walkthrough. it would so hurt the nfl that he will cover it up, pay the guy off....something sinister to make the story go away. it could damage the league's credibility drastically to have a team win several SB's that has cheated. what do you think?
Jim Thomas: I'm not big on the Oliver Stone conspiracies, but to be honest, I share your skepticism. This would be a huge black-eye on the league.
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Bull Hurley: Hey Jim,
Let me start by saying, thank god we drafted Chris Long. He'll contribute immediately on and off the field.
Do you think it would've made more sense to draft Dan Connor with the 33rd pick? I feel he could come in and play MLB right away, which would allow Withersppon to move to his more natural OLB position. We could have picked Avery or Caldwell with our 3rd pick.
I like Greco, but wouldn't he have been there in the 4th.
Justin King could become a great nickel back. Burton, if healthy could be a steal.
Ray Schuening is a solid reliable OG.
I believe Chamberlain could be the replacement for Chavous in a year or two.
Also, I really like Leman and Erin Henderson. I imagine we passed on Henderson due to his injuries. Do you know why they didn't take a chance on Leman. All that guy does is make tackles. He is also a very high character guy.
Any ideas on possible undrafted FA targets?
Jim Thomas: Just a couple comments on your comments.
If Will Witherspoon is too small at 234 pounds at MLB, why does it make sense to draft Connor at 231 pounds?
I don't think Greco would've been around in Round 4. After 8 offensive linemen were taken in Round 1 (6 of which were OTs), only 2 were taken in Round 2 (both guards). I think the Rams felt he wouldn't have been there in Round 4.
I'm very interested to see what King does in camp and preseason. From the outside, it looked like he had kind of a weird year in '08.
The Rams have no plans to play Chamberlain
Okay, I'm sure the Avery pick is going to be beat to death. I don't have a problem with the pick, but being that he wasn't so high on everyone else's board, why not trade down? Was it true that 49ers were hot on Avery? Was it probable that the 49ers would have grabbed him at 39? Was this a case of the Rams falling in love with Avery because they were not expecting Sweed and Thomas to be there at 33? Please shed some light on this, other than the Rams blew an opportunity to grab an extra pick by trading down.
Jim Thomas: Here we go--Unlike Chris Long and Glenn Dorsey, Avery actually was the highest-rated WR on the Rams board. The Rams had some off-field concerns on Devin Thomas and there were injury concerns on Limas Sweeds' wrist. I've heard it's a really bad injury.
According to Rams officials, in their networking with other teams, at least 8 to 10 other teams had Avery rated as their top wide reciever. It was a flawed class, to say the least.
I'm wondering if it was the right pick, as well. We'll find out in about 3 months.
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dev: jim, i really like the fullback from kansas..i seen him play on tv 1100 yards and 16 td that is impressive and over 200 yards receiving was there any other fullbacks with those kind of numbers and what are his chances he makes our team? more info on him .... thanks
Jim Thomas: I don't know much else about the guy. I saw him play on TV a couple times like many of the fans on this chat. I can't imagine a FB in the draft pool with his kinds of numbers. But he will have to block to earn his keep with the Rams.
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steve: hey jim, you know i've got to ask this question once more... have you had a chance to ask howie long about the possibility of his..ehrr..about his son becoming a st. louis ram? also, what grade do you give the rams draft? it seems to me that if you draft logically, for need rather than reaching, the grade goes down. but, if you take the known players from bcs schools, your grade goes up. i sincerely hope the rams and us fans do not regret not picking dorsey. being from kansas, i would have loved to see jordy nelson in a rams uniform. any idea where he stood on the rams draft board as far as receivers?
Jim Thomas: Have not talked to Howie Long about Chris. I was not in New York for the draft, and Howie did not accompany his son to St. Louis for Sunday's press conference. I'd give the Rams a B- or C+ for the draft. I thought the Rams had a good second day, and I give them credit for sticking with productive players and staying away from character risks. But I have a hard time seeing how the Rams passed on the best defensive player in the draft (on their own board) in Dorsey, and like many of you, I'm wondering if they picked the right WR.
Don't know how the Rams felt about Jordy Nelson.
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ramman03: With the way the Draft shaked out, are the Lito Shepard rumors still out there and possible June 1st cap casualty that we might be able to pick up?
Jim Thomas: They were more than rumors. As I reported in Saturday's paper, the Rams did talk to the Eagles about Sheppard but there were no formal offers made by the Rams despite rumors out of Philly that the Rams had offered a second-rounder. They did not. And team officials were emphatic that that was too high an asking price. Unless Philly's asking price goes down, I don't think the Rams are interested. Keep in mind, too, that Sheppard apparently wants a new contract as well. But believe me, the Rams are still antsy about Fakhir Brown's long-term availability even though he won his appeal this time.
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Curt, CA: Dear Jim,
Thanks for the chats. I found it very telling that the players I suspected that were going to be drafted in fact were, not because of my own intuition, but because of what I was reading in your columns. I had Chris Long in the first; DeSean Jackson second (although Avery was the next choice), John Greco in the third, a CB or LB in the fourth, possibly another WR, LB's late. The only thing you were missing was the later round QB.
I keep telling people on the Rams forums to pay attention to what the P-D is writing, and to read between the lines. You showed your relationships at Rams Park are true and your insight is pretty darn accurate. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to reading more as camp then pre-season come around (I want to know ahead of time who's being cut!!). Go Rams!
Jim Thomas: Thanks so much for the kind words. Here's the deal: I may not always be right. I may not always be first. But I spend a lot of time on this beat. And I talk to a lot of people _ more than anyone else. When in doubt, you should always go to your local beat writer for news (whether it's Blues hockey or Cardinals baseball, etc.)
I don't like to speculate. And most of the non-attributed stuff I write is based on people I have talked to inside and outside of the building.
Here's kind of how the first-round pick went down, to the best of my knowledge, regardless of what you may have heard (even from Rams personnel at press conferences and on the radio):
The Rams were targeting Jake Long, the OT from Michigan; once he signed with Miami last Tuesday, it became a Dorsey vs. C. Long thing (Gholston was never in the mix _ except under a trade down scenario). Dorsey was the clear No. 1 on their board early in the week; some top-ranking veteran personnel people wanted Dorsey; as well as most of the scouts; defensive coordinator Jim Haslett wanted Dorsey. My early reports during draft week, although they were played mostly down the middle, gave the edge to Dorsey because of this. But something happened on Thursday night (Thursday just happened to be the first day John Shaw came into town, by the way.) Shaw and team officials adamantly deny that he had anything to do with this, but the board was "mysteriously" tweaked and the gap between Dorsey and Chris Long shrunk considerably. The Rams were very interested in trading out of the pick. As much as they liked Chris Long _ and they do _ they felt that was a lot of money to pay him at No. 2.
In the end, nothing materialized on a trade, and the Rams went for the pass rusher (Long) instead of the defensive tackle.
As for DeSean Jackson, my source on the Rams interest was "outside" the building as I mentioned on a couple of occasions on the "Roll Home" with Bernie and Randy. But after the draft, I was told the team did hold Jackson in high regard (despite some who feel he has a "turd" personality). And Jackson would have been in play had the Rams gotten an extra second-round pick in any trade-down scenario (from the first round). But because of his size, Jackson would have been stricly a slot receiver in the NFL (and a punt returner). The Rams feel Avery can play more than the slot.
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Tj: Chris Chamberlain at #7. Maybe a bigger cheaper version of Adam Archuletta? Is he projected as a LB or SS?
Jim Thomas: Chamberlain was worked out _ I believe at the Senior Bowl _ at safety. The Rams see him as a weak-side linebacker. (But mainly as someone who might be able to help on special teams.)
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Ron: Jim - Since both of the receivers the Rams drafted are "plus" returners, do you think Dante Hall will have to compete for kick/punt returns even if he's healthy? Or will he be around to compete after June 1?
Thank you.
Jim Thomas: Dante Hall is in the last year of his contract, and since he was acquired in a trade, there are no salary cap implications if he's cut before or after June 1. Either way (before or after June 1) the Rams save just under $2 million if he's released. So that definitely is something to keep an eye on if any of these youngsters really shine in the preseason.
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Jay Effnou: Supposedly the Jets tried to move from 6 to 2 to get Chris Long. What was the best offer the Rams received? If it is true that the Rams tried to pry a #2 from Atlanta to move up one spot and assure themselves of Matt Ryan, why didn't the Rams loosen those demands before making the pick, so they could have paid Chris Long less? Finally, couldn't the Rams have slid back a few spots in the second and still come away with Avery? Thank you -- I really enjoy your work.
Jim Thomas: To the best of my knowledge, the Rams received only "nibbles" from the Jets about moving up to No. 2. I was told that the most serious trade talks at No. 2 came from Baltimore trying to move down from No. 8 (apparently to get Ryan). But I was told the Ravens were offering only draft picks _ and not enough to excite the Rams.
If you believe what the Rams told me, and that 8 or 10 other clubs apparently had Avery as their top-rated WR, I don't think a trade-down would've worked. I think it was something like nine of 18 picks were WRs in the second round beginning with the Rams selection of Avery.
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Joesph Phan: Jim,
I read your Chris Long story, and you didn't report any of his contract information. That's important, how could you leave that out?
Joesph Phan
Jim Thomas: It's very important. But he doesn't have a contract. The Dolphins' signing of Jake Long at No. 1 before the draft is very rare. Most first-round picks aren't signed until mid to late July.
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John: Jim,
As always, thanks for taking Rams' fans questions. I live in San Antonio and have been a fan since the early 1970s, so you are one of the ways I keep abreast of the Rams' progress. I have mixed feelings about the draft. I know that fans are upset with Avery, but I am going to allow time to determine the outcome of that issue. My question deals with the issue of LB's. I was hoping we would address this issue earlier than the 7th round. I know we have a 4-3, but we use a 3-4 type of defense on many occassions. Are our 7th rounders going to pan out at LB's? I am skeptical? if not, what are the Rams going to do to remedy this problem? Or, what should the Rams do? As I said, I am a Rams fan since the 1970s, so I hope for less pain than last year when I watch the games on Direct TV. My wife says I am a masochist.
Thanks for being a connector for Rams' fans,
John
Jim Thomas: I too have mixed feelings about the draft. I thought the Rams would pop on an LB in the fourth round. I was a little surprised to see them add another WR there (in Kentucky's Keenan Burton). The Rams had only five LBs on the offseason roster prior to the draft. (Mizzou's Dedrick Harrington, who was singed just before the draft as a street free agent, would've been a sixth, but he's being converted to TE.)
Anyway, the Rams will keep seven LBs on their final roster, so the numbers seem to favor both guys. Both the LBs run fairly well and were very productive in college. Mr. Irrelevant, David Vobora, was even invited to the Combine and tested well there.(The Rams did add a couple of rookie free agents after the draft, and I'm sure they will look around at any bargain basement FAs this spring and even this summer to see if they can add another veteran.)
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RJ: JT:
When will the curvy blue horned sheep get it right. In the 3rd round they had a chance to pick Dan Connor out of LineBackerU and they blew it. Instead we get another OL who needs time to develop. Haven't we had enuf of those???? With Pisa (God bless him) about on his last brittle leg and The Spoon needing to get back to the outside, Connor could have bulked up a little and filled a REAL NEED!!!!!!!! When will they get it? This draft did not make us a contenduh!!!!
Jim Thomas: I think Penn State LBs of late have been a little overrated. Connor, I believe, is smaller than Witherspoon.
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Rampage88: Hey Jim! It seems to be a good draft, but it could have been better. Long will be a great player and a team leader for many years. We filled needs and provided competition for several positions going into camp. I think we could still use a veteran tackle to back up Pace, although I don't know who that would be? Next season looks tough. How many games will this team have to win for the coaching staff to remain the same? Haslett and Saunders are great coaches in my opinion. Linehan, I am not so sure, but I give him TONS of credit for hiring those two.
Jim Thomas: I think the over-under for Linehan's return is 6 1/2 (wins).
As for veteran OTs, Fred Miller is available.
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Mark in NY: Jim, I like the OL picks (that's about all), but my question is this... if all of last year's guys are healthy, are we going to end up with too many lineman? I mean... I was excited about last year's young guys, until they all got hurt. I guess we will keep the best 10 or so and let the rest get picked off waivers? Then, if we have injuries, we stick the new guys in and get a repeat of last year? I just don't see how we "upgraded" the line, other than having new faces to put in this year. Your thoughts...
Jim Thomas: Here's how the depth chart shakes out right now:
LT--Pace, Goldberg
(Yes, Goldberg--When he played for new line coach Loney a few years ago in Minny, Goldberg was an effective LT. The Rams will try him there again.)
LG--Bell, (backup????)
C--Romberg, Setterstrom
RG--Incognito
RT--Barron, Gorin
So that's 8 lineman. Does that leave Fry at LG? Schuening, the fifth-rounder is a RG. John Greco, the third-rounder, will start out at RT, but Rams officials feel his future may be at guard. So adding Fry, Schuening and Greco, that leaves what I feel are 11 viable candidates for a spot on the final 53. The Rams will keep nine or 10. The odds are probably pretty good that someone gets hurt in training camp or the preseason. And keep in mind, Incognito's contract is up after this season.
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Tim Baltes: yes----I am asking about the Avery pick as well. Even IF he ends up being the next I. Bruce, why would we not trade down 15 or so picks and get an extra 3rd and 4th rounder knowing that not a single WR had been taken? The odds of this little known receiver being taken in the next 15 picks would be small. And even if he had, do you believe that he was so much GREATER of a pick that there would be no one comparable in rating 15 picks later? At most 4-5 receivers would have been taken in those next picks. I was saying all along---trade this pick on Lito Shepperd. He isn't great, but he is good....and sure enough, after it is all said and done, we could have gotten him and then probably Avery with our third rounder...
Jim Thomas: As I explained before, the Rams wanted Avery, they didn't like at lot of the other more name wide receivers because of injury or off-the-field problems. And since the Rams felt 8 to 10 teams also liked Avery best, that he might not be available later in the second round.
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Mike - Colorado Springs: With the additions of Avery and Burton through the draft is the writing on the wall for Dante Hall? He is familiar with the offense and may still have value as a return guy but I think both drafted receivers also have return experience. There no longer seems to be a place for Hall as a receiver in this offense unless somebody gets hurt or one of the new guys doesn't make the team. The latter seems only to be a remote possiblity. I would think that Stanley has more value because of his age and speed. Maybe they keep Hall and let go of Looker. Certainly one of the three (Hall, Looker, Stanley) will be gone. Hagans is just an afterthought at this point.
Jim Thomas: I talked some about Hall in an earlier post. Here's the thing. Despite his relatively advanced age for a return man, and his injury problems a year ago, and his cap #, just when you think it's time to put him out to pasture, he returns one for 85 yards.
If nothing else, the competition should be very interesting at WR. The Rams are clearly trying to send a message at that position that it's time to produce or. . . .
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Dino From Sacramento: Hello Jim,
The Draft is now over and on to Mini Camps. Any idea who will be the project quarterback?
Thanks
Dino
Jim Thomas: In terms of project quarterbacks in the draft, or even rookie free agents, there's nobody left. If a player is taken from that pool, we're talking camp arm.
But keep an eye on Tampa Bay, where the Bucs have I believe 7 QBs on their roster. They can't keep 'em all.
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George: Hey Jim-
Just to switch gears from all the post draft talk, can you elaborate alittle bit on the Rams plans for Anthony Becht, the new TE acquired from Tampa Bay? As a Syracuse alum, I remember watching him from his college days at West Virginia and the Marc Bulger to Becht connection was devastating to the Orange for 3yrs! It seemed like every year, WVU would run a middle post Bulger to Becht that was good for 20yds everytime, with Becht finishing the day at 4-5 catches for 60 yards on the day and a touchdown. The Rams got a real gem in Becht and was wondering if he will be used in a receiving capacity or is it strictly for blocking? Also have you talked to Bulger about his thoughts on having his former teammate and good buddy on board with the Rams? Thanks Jim!
Jim Thomas: Becht is the replacement for Aaron Walker as the Rams' blocking tight end. If you remember last year's Rams-Bucs game, when RB Earnest Graham had his coming out party in the second half, Becht was absolutely destroying the Rams' defensive front with his run-blocking. That's what the Rams got him for, but they're also cognizant of the fact that Becht can be an occasionally target in the red zone and on third down. Like you, I believe Becht was an underrated pickup in free agency.
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Andy: Hey Jim! Ready to get some sleep now that all the Draft excitement is finally over with?
First, I was wondering what the word is from the Rams about Donnie Avery. I know what virtues of his the Rams are touting--namely, speed, YAC, and overall production in college. For the record, I'm glad they took a WR with those attributes, and I am excied about Avery's potential. He COULD be exactly what the doctor ordered for our offense (along with a couple of quality o-linemen--Welcome aboard, John Greco and Roy Schuening!) HOWEVER... I, like a lot of others, have to wonder: In the Rams' mind, what made Avery the top choice over, say, DeSean Jackson, who seemed to exhibit many of the same abilities and came from more of a marquee program? What does Avery bring to the field that Jackson doesn't? (Not to nitpick, either, but Avery probably would have been there later, right?)
Second, now that the Long vs. Dorsey issue is settled (though the debate will go on, I'm sure), can you clarify what the starting interior of our defensive line looks like at this point? I know Carriker will start in one tacke spot, but will it be at the nose next to Glover, or as the three-technique guy next to Ryan?
Third, am I interpreting the Rams correctly as saying that UVA's defensive system may not have allowed Long to take full advantage of his physical capabilities as a pass rusher, particularly coming off the edge? YET HE STILL POSTED 14 SACKS?! If that's true, he really could turn out to be a monster on the defensive front, as opposed to just being the "safe, dependable choice" he seems to be getting cast as now (I think he's quite a bit more than that already, but you get my point).
Finally, I personally was divided in the whole Dorsey-Long debate. I thought there were plenty of compelling arguments for either player. NOW, I AM THRILLED THAT CHRIS LONG IS A ST. LOUIS RAM. I think he will be a big-time player here and a fan favorite for years to come. That said, what is the point of spending countless hours watching tape, attending workouts, doing interviews, etc. to stack a draft board, then, when the NUMBER 1 PLAYER on that board falls to you, you pass him up? Seems like there's some inefficiency or wasted energy or something in there. Again, I'm not knocking the pick. I'm ecstatic about Long. I just find the process odd.
Jim Thomas: Check out a couple of the early posts for my thoughts on the drafting of Avery.
As for the Rams' starting DL--It will look like this:
RDE--Chris Long
DT--La'Roi Glover
DT--Adam Carriker
LDE--Leonard Little
James Hall will be the third DE--rotating in to spell Long and Little. Adeyanju is also in the mix, but at this point has shown he's only valuable as a run-defender.
At DT, the Rams want to reduce Glover's snaps. He is still surprisingly effective at his age as a pass rusher, but can get smothered by big OGs in the run game. That's where Ryan, rotating in DT, can help. The mystery man is Wroten, who has been one of the hardest-working Rams this offseason. He's been a regular at Rams Park since January. Has the light finally gone on? We'll see.
Virginia played a 3-4, with Long as an end in the 3-4. That meant he frequently lined up either right on the tackle or even shaded to the tackle's inside. He didn't line up wide _ as you see with Leonard Little for example _ very often. He will have the time to do that in a 4-3.
As exciting as Long's 14 sacks were in '07, he had only 7 _ total _ in his first three seasons at UVA. So he's hardly had a longstanding reputation as a great pass rusher in college.
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Dominic: Hey Jim!
Great job this past weekend on the radio and thru print.With these selections this past weekend,which I might add were acceptable with me,does it clearly show that Billy Devaney is clearly in charge?
I was worried about Glen Dorseys health with his back and knee injuries from the past,were you and the Rams personnel department too?
And do you feel like Dante Hall and Dane Looker and Hagans are definitely on the bubble this training camp?
Thank you and please continue these chats...you are the best!
Jim Thomas: By the way, is this Dominic Genetti from Northwest Missouri State? Just wondering.
At the end of the day, I can't really tell you for sure if Devaney is in charge. (I say this largely because of the late "tweaking" of the Rams' draft board.) It seemed liked Devaney had more input. But it would be naive to think that Jay Zygmunt and John Shaw were strictly neutral observers.
I don't know about the bubble, but Hall, Hagans, Looker and Stanley probably realize they better be on their game in camp and the preseason.
Although the Rams wouldn't out and out say it, I think there probably was some concern about Dorsey's health, even though he was cleared by the team doctors.
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Gabriel to Snow: Oh, the hysteria! I too had to force my mouth closed & my eyes back in my skull more than once this weekend. But this is exactly why Billy Devaney was hired. If all we had to do for a perfect draft was follow the advice of Kiper & his cohorts, we would need no scouts, no draft day decision makers at all. Get an A+ from the "gurus", & our draft is a success, our worries are over! Horse dookie! Draft "experts" grades & opinions are a semi-useful tool at best. A guide to help decide who & what to research in depth. I wanted Chris Long. We had ZERO home field advantage last year. Dorsey may be another Sapp, but even Warren was not that much fun to watch. Dorsey was a game wrecker in college, but NFL offensive lineman will be up to the challenge for awhile, & it's much easier to double the tackle than the DE. Which leaves the DE to be the hero. Chris is the perfect new face of the team, saying all the right things, & it's hard not to believe him. His work ethic & outstanding techniques have him prepared to be a factor from first snap. He can help us take back the Ed. You can't help but root for a kid like him. The more I learned about Avery & the questions dogging other wideouts, the more I appreciate the thorough scouting & the guts it took to make that pick. Avery did exactly what he was asked to do in college, & his character is such that he will do the same for us. We don't have Ike to show him how to beat the press & run routes, but Henry Ellard is no slouch. King seems the biggest reach, but Lito didn't show, & we need competition at CB. It will be entertaining to see how this plays out. In a very real sense, the careers of several ride on the success of this draft to a large degree. They had the courage to put their heads on the chopping block, just like the Texans did with Mario Williams, & who would take Reggie Bush now? Let's not swing the axe until the verdict is in.
Jim, what is your sense of the attitude in Ram nation, am I in the minority? I hope to see Rams fans this year, not Rams critics.
P.S.- Love pick 252, the Idaho Vandal, Linehan's old school if I am not mistaken, he may actually become "relavent"!
Jim Thomas: Gabe, you had a lot to get off your chest. My sense of Rams nation is that the majority is OK (or better) in terms of C. Long. but the Avery pick was a reach.
But you bring up a good point about these draft services: Kiper, Pro Football Weekly, etc. They are NOT the end-all be-all. And it takes 2-to-3 years minimun to properly evaluate the draft.
I will say this about the Rams '08 class--to a very large degree, they all played a lot in college, avoided injuries, and didn't get in trouble off the field. Unlike some of the old days when the Rams tried to show they were smarter than everyone else, all of these picks at least seemed logical on paper.
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Mark in Dallas: Hello JT;
hope everything is good in St.lou and down at Crown Candy.
I know it is too early to tell but I would think it would be easier to draft a DE with speed and tenacity than a DL who is likened to Warren Sapp. I would have taken Dorsey, what would you have done? Also I am happy with the pick in the 3d but what about Avery in the 2nd and the other receiver we picked? What are your thoughts?
Mark
Jim Thomas: Unlike fans, or some members of our local media, I don't have a rooting interest on such matters. On Dorsey-Long, I just can't past the fact that Dorsey was the highest-rated player on their board _ by a significant margin until later in the week_ and the Rams passed on him.
I've already discussed Avery in earlier posts.
The third receiver Burton is intriguing. He played through a lot of injuries last season that would have sidelined others (A torn meniscus cartilage, for example, is no small injury for a WR.) I think Burton missed only one game last season. Had he posted the numbers he did in '06, when he was healthy, he wouldn't have been available late in the fourth.
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Gabriel to Snow: Some draft observations & predictions. We won't know for some time, but here we go.
1. The Chiefs draft is percieved as SO perfect, there is nowhere to go but down. Unless most of these picks excel quickly, disappointment will reign, & Herm may take the blame. They won't be patient for three years in KC, another staff will reap the benefits of these picks, (which largely just fell in there laps).
2. Barring a trade, Lovie will pay for not drafting a QB in chicago.
3. Eric Ainge will surprise in NY. (wish we had him)
4. McFadden will NOT be the best RB in this draft.
5. Trevor Laws will prove he belonged in the first round.
6. Matt Ryan will NOT be the best QB in this years draft. (may take awhile, but he will be eclipsed)
7. My most confident prediction, as with most prognosticators, I will be WRONG on at least half of my predictions.
Jim, what's your take on my crystal ball?
Jim Thomas: I'll answer a few that I have strong opinions on:
1.) I loved the Chiefs draft. They got the best defensive player in the draft (Dorsey), and either the second_ or third-best offensive lineman in Albert (some might have clady ahead of him). And Flowers, although slow, could be an effective DB.
2.) Lovie should have addressed the QB situation a couple of years ago.
3.) At most, Matt Ryan was a mid to late first round draft pick. One NFC scout that I talked to said his team had Ryan rated as a THIRD-ROUNDER!
I just could never get past Ryan's 19 INTs. OK, I'll buy into the fact that his supporting cast at BC may not have been the best. But how many INTs is Ryan going to throw against NFL secondaries, that disguise their coverages, and have faster personnel?
It was a lousy QB class, one of the worst in years. But Falcons owner Arthur Blank wanted Ryan. Best of luck, Art.
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RamRon: Jim,
The only Rams draft pick I questioned was the 4th pick. Justin King was the 14th cornerback selected. Beau Bell, an OLB from UNLV, projected to be an ILB in the NFL and rated as one of the top ILB's by most analysts and publications, was still available.
I question why the Rams passed on Bell for King. Seems to me that they have more depth at cornerback, using 2nd, 1st and 3rd round picks in the last 3 drafts, than they do at linebacker. I'm one of the fans who believe Witherspoon would be more effective at OLB, where he would be positioned to blitz more in a 4-3. Bell as MLB would allow WW to move outside, and seems like he would at least have been an improvement at MLB backup over McGarigle. When the defense shifts to a 3-4, wouldn't Bell being inside allow WW to be the edge or buck rusher that we would need in that alignment? Seems like the most momentum the defense garnered last season was the period where WW was blitzing regularly and getting either sacks or pressure.
I'm hoping that the shoulder injury that King was supposedly playing with last year was the cause for the drop in his play from the previous year.
Please comment. Thanks.
Jim Thomas: I confess, I don't know much about Bell and have no idea if the Rams were interested in him. However, I did think the Rams would go for a linebacker in Round 4.
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Benjamin: Hey JT,
First off I just want to thank you for your in-depth knowledge & professionalism regarding the Rams, it's refreshing after reading all the draft stuff this weekend.
1. It's way too early to know how the Rams did on draft day in terms of hitting on players that will be productive for them. For the most part I think the guys they drafted appear as if they could give solid contributions, even though they seem to have stuck to the past philosophy of drafting "projects" in some respects. What we can judge at this point is how the front office performed with draft management.
I'm sure we're all curious as to why Devaney didn't trade down in the 2nd round when he knew the guy he wanted surely wouldn't be the first WR selected?
It's a bit confusing because in the later rounds he showed a willingness to move up and get guys he had targeted. This makes the 2nd round choice all the more puzzling to me when LBS Lofton, Conner, and DB Flowers we're available with that pick. Why not take a talent at another need position, then aggressively trade back into the 2nd round to get Avery if it looked like WRs were flying off the board?
I don't understand why he didn't follow his board to start off the draft, then adhered to it rigidly thereafter?
2. I guess I've never been a fan of drafting for need. I generally like the Ozzie Newsome or Phil Savage approach of taking the best talent available. Even the way it seems Bill Polian has found a nice balance of going need in round 1 or 2 then going best talent after that. Maybe I got the wrong impression from what was said about going into day 2 and being determined to take an OT with their first pick, but that sure makes it sound like this draft was all about need, need, need. What is the general consensus around the league & within the Rams about locking in on a need to the point where you're passing on superior talent with most every pick?
Thanks
Jim Thomas: Again, if you read my earlier posts, the Rams had Avery that highly-rated, and were afraid of a trade-down because they knew of several other teams that supposedly had Avery rated No. 1 at WR on their boards.
As you are, I'm puzzled why the Rams strayed from their board in Round 1.
The worst mistake you can make in drafting is straying from board for need in the early rounds. You just can't pass on potentially great players.
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Gabriel to Snow: Jim, maybe you can help clear some things up for me.
1. Am I correct that Arkansas had 2 backs go in round 1, but no O-lineman drafted? I didn't see the Razorback ballcarriers breaking many tackles at the line of scrimmage. SOMEBODY must have opened up those holes!
2. Did an Alabama player EVER get drafted? If not, has that ever happened in the "modern" era?
3. I see the Rams are signing free agents, some of interest. However, with no QB drafted, our commitment to carry 3, & Brock Berlin the only barrier to an NFL paycheck, you'd think we'd be fighting off the out of work signal callers looking for a good camp. You'd also think we'd WANT some competition for Brock, what gives?
Jim Thomas: 1.) I don't know, I think those RBs are pretty good.
2.) No Alabama player was drafted. I would think it's happened before, but not very often.
3.) I guess they're still working on it. Like I said before, keep an eye on Tampa Bay.
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Gabriel to Snow: Hey Jim, are you aware of the fuss ESPN made of Army's Caleb Campbell? It was great, & I totally support Army's decision to be the only branch of the armed forces (so far) to adjust the service requirements of an athlete offered a pro career. I will be following his progress at Detroit, along with thousands of Army faithful.
Why would a great athlete choose any other branch of the service? Unless the others fall in line, I wouldn't bet on Navy too often.
Have you heard from your son? Was the caleb Campbell story a big deal up there?
Jim Thomas: I just happened to look up at the TV in the Rams Park media room and caught some of the Campbell stuff. It was great. Army just changed their regulations to allow Cadets to go right into the NFL. They also had a FB by the name of Viti (sp?) signed as a rookie free agent.
I did shot a "Go Army!" and a couple of "Houaas!" once I saw the pick. I called my son shortly thereafter, and happened to get him on his cell phone right away _ which NEVER happens. He was aware of the pick, but knee-deep in homework so we didn't talk long.
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Matt: Hey Jim,
I know it's jumping the gun a little..okay..a lot, but I noticed we didn't draft any safties this year. Do you think we could be eyeing a safety like USC's Kevin Ellison, or possibly a Tarrell Brown out of Texas? Those guys are solid playmakers that bring the wood to say the least. I think they would bring the attitude and skill we need to the SS position. I know we still have Chavous but these would be good additions to sponge off of his knowledge as well as push Jerome Carter to be the player we saw in college. Please let me know your thoughts.
Jim Thomas: The Rams did like Tyrell Johnson of Arkansas State. Had he lasted through to the third round, he might have been a Ram. BUt he went only 10 picks after Donnie Avery in the second round. Don't know about the prospects you are mentioning, but I would think safety would be a higher priority in the '09 draft. I think the Rams realize Chavous' career is winding down.
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sean: shouldnt we have tried to throw a pass to byrd before cutting him? during his whole stay here, we never just lined him up and threw him a pass. he is a playmaker, not a blocker, all we needed to do was let him play. instead we complain that he's a bust, and a bad character guy. the guy cant make a play without some one throwing him the ball, it's just something i dont undrstand.
Jim Thomas: Byrd didn't do much to get himself on the field. His practice habits were slovenly. He feel asleep in team meetings so often that coaches actually had him STAND UP during at least one team meeting in an effort to try to keep him awake.
Heck, he didn't even make the team plane for the regular-season finale against Arizona.
I do not feel sorry for Byrd. If you're mad at the coaching staff or front office, be mad at them for drafting the guy in the first place.
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John Riggs: Thanks, Jim, for your time: As a Rams fan I hope to be proven wrong, but it looks like our first two picks have far less value, relative to their drafting position, than the later picks. Have we not drafted Grant Wistrom (Chris Long) instead of Warren Sapp (Glenn Dorsey) and Clyde Duncan (Donnie Avery) instead of Koren Robinson (Devin Thomas)?
Jim Thomas: Haslett feels Long is a more athletic version of Wistrom. But he does think that Dorsey is the best DT prospect to come along since Sapp in '95. (The Rams, by the way, passed on Sapp that year _ who was fighting off drug use reports at the time _ for Kevin Carter.
As for Avery, you do know that he played much of the '07 season with a dislocated thumb? I don't think that injury showed up in many of the pre-draft publications. And to call him the next Clyde Duncan _ c'mon _ Avery did catch 210 college passes. How many did Duncan have? (But don't get me wrong, I too am wondering if they got the right guy.)
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Chip: I liked how the Rams drafted...however, could they have done a trade down and gotten maybe one more 'impact' player, seems like we sorta picked a little high for the first 2 picks to me?
Thanks,
Chip
Jim Thomas: Chip--You have put in condensed fashion my thoughts on Day 1 as well. It does look like they picked a little high for Long and Avery. But keep in mind, it keeps two to trade down. And the Rams weren't going to trade down unless the compensation was worth it.
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bfulton: In contexts other than the Rams' Leonard Little, ESPN's "NFL Live" commentators Floyd Reese and Mark Schlereth have bemoaned the great difficulty in coming back from toe injuries. Though they weren't talking about Little, it has me worried. Any updates on his recovery? Does anybody at Rams Park worry that this is career-ending injury?
Jim Thomas: Well, I think there probably is at least some concern behind the scenes, and that may have contributed to the selection of Chris Long. But I am told, by good sources, that the surgery went well, and Little should be fine. Even beyond the toe, he does turn 34 in October.
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Ryan C.: Hey Jim!
I was really shocked when the Rams drafted Donnie Avery over DeSean Jackson, Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas etc. What do you know about Avery? Do you think that was a good pick? I personally liked Kelly and Jackson but I'll keep an open mind on Avery.
Jim Thomas: I know Kelly's injury problems concerned the Rams. Maybe is 40-time tantrum did so as well.
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Justin Trout: Hey Jim!
Well the draft is over and we can all give our two cents worth of how the Rams did. Not bad...but not great. I think we have some guys to work with and feel that most will at least make the team. One question that comes to mind is what undrafted rookie free agents have we signed or are looking at signing? They may not be big names, but nobody thought Culberson had a chance either....
Thanks for the Chats and the info!
Justin
Jim Thomas: By know you've seen the list of rookie free agents. Most are at position where the Rams want to add depth _ for camp, not for the regular season. But keep an eye on the fullbacks, and who knows where the next Culberson, Fletcher, or Warner might come from? It was very surprising to see no QB on the list.
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Mike: Jim -- I noticed Ali Highsmith from LSU wan't drafted. Tell my why the Rams won't sign him to a deal and at least see what he can do at safety. The guy was a masher in college, played for a great program and would seem to be a great fit at safety in the pros. Are there any other FAs the Rams are considering or are they maxed out?
Jim Thomas: As you may have noticed, the Rams didn't sign Highsmith as a rookie FA. As for why he didn't get drafted, maybe there's something going on that we don't know about.
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Faris Chehabi: Hey, I am from Dallas, TX and am 15 years old, and finally on September 28, 2008, I am flying on a plane from Dallas at 9 AM that day to watch my St. Louis Rams. I am a die hard fan and my parents finally let me go. This is a dream come true for me and I am literally counting the days I enter Edwards Jones Dome. My questions is: Do you have any recommendations for how to get autographs or talk to players? I will be getting to the game early to watch the Rams warm up with probably a sign saying I'm from Dallas. If I got to meet a Rams player it would be the best day of my life. How does it work down there in St. Louis if you get to the game like 3 hours early. Please let me know and tell me anything else that is important for me to go. Thanks a lot. GO RAMS!!!!
Jim Thomas: You might have a better chance if your sign says: RAMS FANS FROM DALLAS.
Unfortunately, the Dome doors don't open until 1 1/2 hours before kickoff. As soon as you get inside, look for the tunnel where the Rams are coming in and out of the locker room. That's you best bet for contact with the players, although they're usually to tuned in to the game at that time for autographs, although some have been known to throw wristbands, gloves, etc., up to the stands after the game.
Also, prior to the dome doors opening, the players usually cross the street from the Drury Inn to the dome in street clothes. I don't know if they have a pre-game meal at the Drury or what. But they're in street clothes, and this usually happens around 2 1/2 hours before kickoffs.
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Joel: Hi Jim:
Thank you for your time. Great Job.
This is my problem with Scott Linehan and correct me if I'm wrong. It is the job of the head coach to put his team in a position to win. The Rams were hardly in a position to win last year, especially when it came to the offense.
We didn't and/or couldn't stretch a defense. When Steven Jackson ran the ball, he was almost always hit immediately. When it was 3rd and 8, we would throw a 5 yard pass. The offense was so predictable that it was infuriating. For Lihehan to blame it on the injuries doesn't make a lot of sense. How much worse of a record would the Rams have if you or I were the head coach?
Is it possible to ask him this very question and how he plans to be more creative?
Jim Thomas: Someone must have been thinking the same thing _ or something along these lines. Because they hired Al Saunders as their offensive coordinator.
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Tom Stewart: In your honest opinion, do you think Avery will be an impact player for the Rams? Also, are we really considering releasing Dante Hall? He is a great return man and although he is dropping because of age, he did great last season when he was healthy. What do you think?
Jim Thomas: I don't know what to say about Avery. Like you, I'm anxious to see him in camp and in the preseason.
I know there's been some speculation on Hall because of his age and injuries last season. There was a little bit of scuttlebutt, too, that he "shut it down" too early last year after aggravating his ankle injury. In addition, I've been told, he has fallen well short of perfect attendance this spring during the offseason conditioning program. But there's no denying his skill. We'll see.
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Mikael Roberats: Who will be starting at DT? Carriker and ______. Will it be Clifton Ryan, or La'roi Glover? Also, I think our defensive line is going to be great next season. Long, Little, Carriker, Glover, Ryan. What do you think the defensive line will achieve next year?
Jim Thomas: I think it will be Carriker and Glover, but the Rams do want to play Glover less, and you may see more of Ryan in running siutiatons.
With good health, and a solid return from toe surgery by Little, I think this line could be much improved, although I still have my doubts about how it will hold up against big o-lines (Dallas) or teams that like to pound the football.
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Eli Marrero: Which WR's do you think will make the team. I say: Holt, Bennett, Avery, Burton, Stanley, Hall, Caldwell. What do you think?
Jim Thomas: They will keep only six. Right now, I'd say Holt, Bennett and Avery are the only sure things. This is going to be one of the most interesting positions in camp and the preseason.
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Eli Marrero: Who will be competing for the job of Kickoff and punt return man and who do you think will get it?
Jim Thomas: It's still Hall's to lose. Interestingly, Avery and Burton are more experienced on kickoffs than punts, so I don't know how the backup PR guy is at the moment. (Hagans? Looker?) Stanley's much better on KORs than PRs at this point as well. And all these guys aren't going to make the final 53.
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John Switzel: What will the CB look like on the depth chart. I say: Brown, Hill, Wade, King. What do you say?
Jim Thomas: Brown and Hill as the starters. Bartell as the No. 3. Wade or Macklin as the No. 4. King probably as the No. 5. (The Rams could even keep 6 CBs this year.)
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Joseph Piles: What's this I hear about Holt wanting to go to Carolina?? I was so upset when I heard that! Is this really possible? Losing another Future Hall of Famer and Super Champ with the Rams (Bruce). If he doesn't end up going to Carolina, doesn't this mean that he doesn't really want to be with the Rams and is giving up them which means he wont try as hard? Please let me know as I am very upset!
Jim Thomas: You know, I heard about that sound bite (made at his charity golf tournament in N. Carolina) through a good friend, but I never saw it. I think it was said along the lines of, "once my time is done in St. Louis" etc. So it wasn't like he was demanding a trade. Still, Holt obviously wasn't a happy camper at the end of the season. I'm sure he liked the hiring of Al Saunders, but I'm equally sure he was NOT happy over the release of Isaac Bruce.
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Joseph Piles: Is the Lito Sheppard trade officialy over? I think we could really use him and if we got him we would have great CB's. Also are there any other trades the Rams seem interested in or small free agent signings. Let me know. Thanks.
Jim Thomas: Well, it's over in terms of the 2008 draft. I think the Eagles discovered that the market for Sheppard was far lower than they anticipated.
By the way, now that the draft is over, I can tell that the trade I had hinted at weeks and weeks ago involved a center (I'm not going to say from which team). You know, this was the so-called "big trade" that somehow grew to mythic proportions by some, including some of my media colleagues. It was never that big a deal.
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michael_gordon: does j.king even make the roster? Hill, Brown, Wade, Bartell, bassey are locks....and macklin and vinnett are good football players.....
also, i heard about possibly moving bassey to safety, in one of linehan and devaneys interview...would that be FS or SS?
Jim Thomas: Bassey is being moved to safety. Given his size, it would have to be FS. (and as I mentioned earlier today, the Rams could keep 6 corners).
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jl: a few observations from the draft, see if you agree...
- They love Culberson. They didn't draft a LB that will compete with him until mr. irrelevant
- The rams hate their WR corps. Devaney clearly sees nothing in Hagans or Looker. they wont make the team
- The rams aren't sure, but they hope Orlando Pace makes a full recovery. They wanted to draft a LT but couldn't find one really...so it looks like barron will slide over in an injury
- They like pittman enough. They didn't draft a RB so you've got to think they have something there
- The rams think chavous can give it at least one more time around. No SS???
- Ryan is a starting caliber DT.
- Brian Leonard is a good enough FB in their opinion. Richard owens is still on the roster but im sure he won't be for long. Lets hope one of these UDFA can help there, push him off the roster.
- Finally, Scott Linehan is OBSESSED with speed
Jim Thomas: 1.) They like Culberson. But Draft enters camp as the starter there.
2.) They want more competition at WR.
3.) They are rolling the dice somewhat on Pace
4.) If Felix Jones had lasted until No. 33 of the second round, he would have been a Ram.
5.) Correct on Chavous
6.) I think Glover still starts, but Ryan has a bigger role.
7.) I don't know how they plan to use Leonard. I'm not sure he knows.
8.) Linehan realized the Rams needed to get faster at WR; Haslett likes speed at the corner.
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Mark: Jim,
I'll try to post a few of questions that hopefully will be different from the standards.
1. I thought the Rams would draft or sign a undrafted QB, since they did not, what is the plan?
2. Drafting two OL, do you think either will start (e.g. are some of the injuries from last year not healing or is management getting sick of bonehead penalties false starts and personal fouls?) and what do you envision the starting line to be?
3. In reading the write-up's for our draft it seems that I saw a lot of the same adjectives (hard-working, smart, dedicated, etc.), I'm happy to see the organization is leaning towards high character players and not knuckleheads like Byrd (who thankfully was just cut). How long is Wroten's leash?
Thanks for the insight!
Jim Thomas: 1.) So did I. I don't know what the plan is. There's really nothing but camp arms left in rookie free agency. I think there best bet might be to sign a young QB with some NFL experience.
2.) I don't think either will start this year, barring injury.
Starting OL: Pace LT; Bell LG; Romberg-Setterstrom C: Incognito RG; Barron RT.
3.) Geez, if we in the media heard some variation of the phrase "smart, passionate, productive" once, we heard it a dozen times over the weekend. It made me wonder if they had a sign with those words posted somewhere in the draft board. I think it's a wise course to take given Sheriff Goodell's "limited tolerance" policy on miscreants. Wroten's leash got longer when the Rams drafted Long instead of Dorsey.
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dave: thanks for the forum jim
out of the UDFA's, who are the most likely to stick, im thinking FB, LB's...
also, is there gonna be a QB added, dont they need one to throw to the WR's at rookie orientation?
Jim Thomas: Yeah, I would say FB No. 1; LB No. 2. They're still looking for a QB. I was surprised they didn't draft at QB late; but even more surprised they didn't sign one in rookie free agency. Linehan thinks some teams may have used a form of negative recruiting after the draft in terms of signing undrafted free agents. (Believe it or not, this period _ in the few hours after the draft _ is really competitive.) Anyway, Linehan thinks some other NFL teams looking for undrafted FAs at QB may have told QB prospects that also had been contacted by the Rams something along the lines of: "Why would you want to go to St. Louis, they're only going to be keeping two QBs?" Linehan has made it clear, at least to the media, that he wants to keep three this season.
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Curt, CA: Hey Jim,
The Rams had such a good draft over the weekend, how can they sign such a lousy free agent group?
Yvensen Bernard? All 5-8 of him? With 4.73 speed? How about Houston's Anthony Alridge (5-9 180) with 4.36 speed, RB, can play WR, and excellent punt returner?
The Alabama WR I'm okay with, although he is a little slow, but how do you pass on someone like Hawaii's Bryan Grice-Mullen (5-11 190 4.36)? I can gaurantee you he caught "a few" balls in his time!
And two (2) undersized DT's? For what? There is no depth at NT behind Ryan, so wouldn't big-time experienced guys like Va Tech's Barry Booker (6-4 290), WVU's Keilen Dykes (6-3 295), or Akron's Nate Robinson (6-4 305) have been better?
The Rams stressed character all weekend, so why not Iowa's DE Bryan Mattison? That is someone who gives 100% all the time!
LB Hall I have no problem with, but why not also add Ali Highsmith (LSU 6-0 223) and/or Wesley Woodyard (Kentucky 6-1 227 4.51!)instead of another D-II filler?
Not sure who the CB is, but at least give the local guy a shot! Darnell Terrell (Missouri 6-2 4.4) should have been signed, and you could also make a case for Stillman's Brian Witherspoon (5-10 180 4.29 40").
And while we're talking high character, high motor guys, why would you pass on BC's SS Jamie Silva?
Unbelievable!
Jim Thomas: Geez, maybe you should have my job. You're more up on these guys than I am.
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Dan: Hey Jim, what was the deal with Chad Henne? He said the Rams called and said they were going to trade up to get him, I haven't heard any talk about this. Also do you think the defensive line we have now could be the best the Rams have had since they came to St. Louis? Thanks
Jim Thomas: I'm glad you brought this up. It was totally false. Don't quote me on this, but I told it might have been someone saying he was Linehan. There was also some weird stuff going on _ I'm told _ with someone trying to be Henne's agent. But two Rams officials told me emphatically that it was not the case. That's not to say that Linehan didn't like Henne _ heck, he brought him in for a pre-draft visit. But not to the point of trading up into the second round.
As for the D-Line--I think they'd have to go a long ways to top Carter, Farr, Agnew, and Wistrom on the '99 Super Bowl squad.
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randy travis: how are we gonna stretch the field with these new receivers when we still have the same quarterback - bulger ...... dont u think other teams know by now that bulger is a wiz at passes 25 yards and under in the middle of the field but dosent have the arm stregth to complete deep passes ........ his entire career he has shown he underthrows the deep ball badly even when the receivers are wide open ..... i mean heck the last bomb we caught for a td was the torry holt circus catch against the seahawks two years ago .... and that ball of course was horrible underthrown as usual and it took holts circus catch to bail him out .... and we wont even discuss bulgers horrible red zone quarterbacking where real qbs distinguish themselves while pretenders fade away ..... oops, i just did discuss it ... oh well ......... so anyways back to my original question .... even if we had carl lewis in his prime, how are we gonna be able to stretch the field with bulger at quarterback? ........ i mean i dont even think he can throw the ball more than 40 yards past the line of scrimmage .
Jim Thomas: Randy Travis? When's the last time he had a hit song?
Your points are well taken on Bulger's ability to throw the deep ball. But when you factor in the rib problems last season, and shoulder problems earlier, I think he throws an acceptable deep ball.
As for Bulger's red zone throwing, last year was one thing, but the year before he was terrific down there. I'm not saying he's Johnny Unitas, but obviously you're not a Bulger fan.
I'm going to pick up my 11-year-old from school. Give me about 15 minutes and I'll be back. I'm going to go about another hour on the chat when I get back. I'll try to answer as many as I can. It's been fun today. Lot's of good questions.
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mr. starks: Hey Jim, a couple of things...
First off, the obvious, our 2nd round pick Avery... I'm just fine with us getting him, but why did we not trade down to later in the second round and pick up an additional pick? or better yet just get Devin Thomas!
And can the Rams now negotiate with our picks? We know how important it is to get our players into camp and I wouldn't think Long with his character will be too much of a problem. I would also think Howie will really express how important it is to get into camp. Last thing, how much do you see Long signing for? I'm worried when we sign him and have to worry about Atogwe and Jackson that we will be in some cap trouble.
Jim Thomas: Yes. Rams can now negotiated with there picks. Long's agent, Marvin Demoff, is a very good friend of Shaw. So even though Shaw doesn't really handle negotiations, I don't see this one being a problem. Particularly, since we already know what No. 1 (Jake Long) is getting.
See my earlier answers on Avery. And as I mentioned before, I think there were some off-field concerns on Thomas.
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Tim: Do you think Grecco will beat Barron for starting job at RT?
Jim Thomas: Not this year. But I think Greco has the ability to be a starter, although his future may be at guard and not tackle.
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doug norman: regarding the "spygate" problem....i see no way that goodell will ever let it get out should walsh have videotape of the rams SB walkthrough. it would so hurt the nfl that he will cover it up, pay the guy off....something sinister to make the story go away. it could damage the league's credibility drastically to have a team win several SB's that has cheated. what do you think?
Jim Thomas: I'm not big on the Oliver Stone conspiracies, but to be honest, I share your skepticism. This would be a huge black-eye on the league.
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Bull Hurley: Hey Jim,
Let me start by saying, thank god we drafted Chris Long. He'll contribute immediately on and off the field.
Do you think it would've made more sense to draft Dan Connor with the 33rd pick? I feel he could come in and play MLB right away, which would allow Withersppon to move to his more natural OLB position. We could have picked Avery or Caldwell with our 3rd pick.
I like Greco, but wouldn't he have been there in the 4th.
Justin King could become a great nickel back. Burton, if healthy could be a steal.
Ray Schuening is a solid reliable OG.
I believe Chamberlain could be the replacement for Chavous in a year or two.
Also, I really like Leman and Erin Henderson. I imagine we passed on Henderson due to his injuries. Do you know why they didn't take a chance on Leman. All that guy does is make tackles. He is also a very high character guy.
Any ideas on possible undrafted FA targets?
Jim Thomas: Just a couple comments on your comments.
If Will Witherspoon is too small at 234 pounds at MLB, why does it make sense to draft Connor at 231 pounds?
I don't think Greco would've been around in Round 4. After 8 offensive linemen were taken in Round 1 (6 of which were OTs), only 2 were taken in Round 2 (both guards). I think the Rams felt he wouldn't have been there in Round 4.
I'm very interested to see what King does in camp and preseason. From the outside, it looked like he had kind of a weird year in '08.
The Rams have no plans to play Chamberlain